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Talk:Elise/@comment-188.79.85.182-20130327221724/@comment-76.246.56.208-20130328072426
Ok, I didn't play much in Season 2, so I can't say anything about that. However, items like Liandry's Torment weren't a direct buff to Elise. It was an indirect buff to all AP champions. Liandry's Torment made AP carry's able to go toe to toe with tanks, it made AP carry's able to go off on their own and not have to worry about if the opposing tank was going to come and kill them without them even being able to do anything significant. I understand that Vi has limitations, every champion does. However, her Denting Blows is just ridiculous. It needs a nerf. Karthus is a great AP carry. Not OP, that's only his ult. So many people bitch about Katarina being OP, and I haven't seen a huge amount of people complaining about Elise. Miss Fortune isn't OP, but she has a great base damage on her ult. Quinn has so much in her kit it's no even funny. She has more in her kit than any other individual champion. Bonus AS and AD, a gap closer/escape mechanism, a slow, a blind, and an AoE ult, a reveal, a major speed boost and AS boost in Valor form. Look at all of that and honestly tell me that is not OP. Have you ever faced a Darius? Have you ever played Darius? If you haven't, get good at him and watch as people drop dead in front of you. Seriously, try him. Even if you refund him later. Try him. And then if you really want to get into the OP side of things, there's Xin Zhao who can 5v1 and get a pentakill if used right. With the Elise taking out half Malphite's health with her combo, there's two things that I see wrong with it. 1. Elise used her entire combo, so she was done. She was out of resources for a little bit. 2. Malphite didn't fight back at all. Not even a little bit. If he had, since Elise was building support, he would have won unless she managed to get under her turret, and even then it was possible. And then the game of yours that you were talking about with your friend laning against Elise. Again, there's some things that I see wrong here. 1. I have never been killed 1v1 by someone who I've been up five kills on. Never. The only excuses for that are teamfights, a 3 (or more)v1, or you tower dive them and they manage to turn the situation on you. (the only possibe exception to this is a skilled Cassiopia that I know of.) 2. I think your friend was up against someone who had a much higher skill level than your friend. The way you're describing this, it sounds like your friend isn't very good with the champion they were using, and the Elise player was very good with Elise. I think your friend was simply out classed. Don't blame the champion, blame the player. Just because you faced a good player, doesn't mean the champion is overpowered. Miss Fortune can be devastating if she's played right. Is she overpowered? No. Same thing with Karthus. And Syndra. And Teemo. And Talon. And Nautilis. And Annie. And Morgana. And LeBlanc. And Riven. See what I'm getting at? It doesn't matter what champion you use. It matters how well you can use them. A bad Katarina won't get many kills and will feed. Same wih a bad Elise. It doesn't matter what champion it is. If you are a bad player, you won't get many kills. It's as simple as that. Riots purpose of existing is to make money. All companies exist to make money. Nothing more. The best way to do that is to please consumers. The first people they go to please are the pros because they are the people who make them money indirectly through advertising. Then they try to please everyone else. The 99% of people who play (the non pro players) don't make Riot a huge quantity of money from RP sales. The vast majority of their money comes from advertising at their tournaments. Therefore pros are their first priority. It happens. Unfortunately that means that the average voice won't be heard over a pros voice. If you want to see a change, go and talk about this on the LoL forums, not on th wiki. You'll get a lot more feedback, and you might even have a Riot employee reply to your post. Look at Cassiopeia. Syndra. Orianna. Those are the three champions in LoL who have a difficulty rating of 100. Look at how powerful those three can be if played and built right. There's almost nothing you can do against them if they're played right. I have a friend who went up against a Cassiopeia 1v1 as Tryndamere, and he lost even having used Deathless. He actually told me that he got about three hits on her. The reward for being able to play these high skill champions s being able to take on almost anyone. The higher the skill required to play a champion, the higher the risk, and therefore the higher the reward. I just recently picked up Syndra. She is one of the strongest champions I've ever used. She is also one of the most difficult. I picked up Cassiopeia as well. Same thing. I plan on picking up Orianna, and I bet I will have the same situation. Comparing Syndra to Elise, I do more damage as Syndra than as Elise, even having played Elise for two/three months, and only having played Syndra for three days. She's high risk, high reward. As for your other comment about good players in a 'true competetive scene, and that's what we should care about.' I couldn't care less what the pros do. I'm not a pro, no. But I'm not stupid either. I can think for myself, and I know that if I work at something long enough, I will get good at it. I know that I may not have the best builds in the world for the champions I play and yes, I look at and at least try other people's suggetions on builds. I form my own opinions on them, regardless of what the meta is and regardless of what other people say. Just because a pro does it or builds it, doesn't mean that it's the best choice. It means it works for them, in that particular situation. Just because 'most people' buid Elise tanky with Magic Pen and not much AP, doesn't mean I do. Just because people build Sejuani as a tank, doesn't mean I go pure tank on her. Just because people jungle with Shyvana, doesn't mean I do. What works for some people, doesn't for others. There's not one way to build any champion. Just because a pro doesn't build a champion a certain way doesn't mean that people can't build other ways. People may not think the build is good, but if it works for them, it works for them. Pros don't mean everything. The 1% don't control the 99%. So if you truly feel that the competetive scene is all we should care about, then you should stop playing because the chances of any individual being in that 1% of players, is so low it's basically impossible. You have to be the best of the best of the best in ranked. It's not going to happen. You know how I know this? Because if you were that 1%, you would have been able to stomp that Elise into the ground and you wouldn't be on here complaining about how overpowered she is, you would be learning how to play her and how to counter her. Because pro players abuse overpowered champions. Why do you think Xin Zhao was chosen so often?